Is Yoshimura serve Legal? Help Timo Boll

Is Yoshimura serve Legal? Help Timo Boll


Welcome back to PingSunday, the best place
to learn table tennis. Timo Boll “Help Me!”. Today we talk about the “Upside-down service”
of Yoshimura. Is it really effective? And is this serve really illegal? Let’s go! Last week, I have explained the secret of
Yoshimura’s serve. He has used this serve very
effective to win Timo Boll in the Team World Cup 2019. And there are lot of comments. Some of you said that this serve is illegal
But anothers have disagreed, and said that his
serve is perfect and legal. Oh. I don’t cry about it. I think this is a very good serve. And if it is at the borderline (difficult
to say legal or illegal), you should learn this serve as your new weapon. So today, let’s see
if this serve is really effective? and analyse it is legal or illegal? Let analyse the game between Timo Boll and
Yoshimura at this Team World Cup. So you can see that Timo Boll has a hard time
to read the spin of Yoshimura serve. He lost
about 12 points due this problem. Yes, 12 points/ over (11+11+13=35 points
won by Yoshimura. That means about 34%. 34% is very high, even at the high level player. So I can say this serve is very very effective! It’s a very good serve to learn. To conlude “legal” or not “legal”. Let’s study this slow motion serve of Yoshimura. In your opinion, is it legal or not? I’m waiting for your comment! However, developing a good serve is very important
in table tennis. Take your time, to improve your serve! See you!

100 Comments on “Is Yoshimura serve Legal? Help Timo Boll”

  1. Only blind cannot see the contact of Yoshimura's serve. It is for a very legal…only those who cannot get his serve would say its illegal. If it is illegal, then the world table tennis association is also illegal…

  2. If the ball is not visible AT ALL TIMES to the receiver, then it is illegal. Anyone who says otherwise needs to read the ITTF Handbook. My theory as to why umpires don't call it is because the players don't call it. If the players don't call it, then the umpire thinks it's fine. So it's partially the players fault for not complaining.

  3. There are times when he makes contact just below the head and the serve can be bearly visible. But in my opinion, many of his serves had the contact point hidden by his head.

  4. Contact point????

    It is behind the racket, not obscure by the part of body !!!!

    You can see by the side view.

    His head is above the racket when the ball contact.

    But the contact point is behind, on the back side of the other player, behind the racket.

    So I think it’s completely legal, if the rule has no point of contact should not be obscured by the back side of the racket???

  5. Сильно выпячивает челюсть и ею закрывает мяч во время удара😀! Плюс присутствует явный наброс мяча на ракетку.

  6. He would argue that straight on camera angle is not realistic, and the player would be able to see if from the opposite corner of other side of table.

  7. This is where the rules of this great game are not well thought out. Terms such as “near to vertical”, or “you can’t hide the ball with your arm age clothes”. Interpretation is everything and at the discretion of the umpire.

  8. EmRatThich I am very surprised how and why you are debating a serve that is sooo obviously breaching the rules of serving. This service is being hidden, the ball is being hidden the racket is hidden. Then the ball suddenly appears as though it's shooting out of his left ear. Please, can you re study the serving rules again there must be some word that was misunderstood in the description of what a legal serve in Table Tennis is.

  9. I think the most effective solution is the decision that even if it's at the boundary of decision (whether it is seen or not seen) it should be consider to illegal because he sometimes shows up the contact point and sometimes not…. His head is the barrier not that his not a Chinese… The contact point should always BE SEEN CLEARLY NOT SOMETIMES SEEN…. This is my opinion….

  10. It's a Mix of Legal and Illegal serves. Sometimes he put his head down too much and block the contact point of the ball.

  11. table tennis is played by so many amateurs who have NO IDEA how to follow a rule strict to every letter. Thus NOT every opinion is equal. The only TRUE opinion is ILLEGAL obviously. There's no other reason pros can't receive it well if it were always visible. There's nothing magic about serves anymore once you do NOT hide it. EVERYONE who's pro can receive your serves if you don't hide it

  12. I saw Jan Owe Waldner's serves, look like the same way as Yoshimura's, did that time (before 2010) Ittf has the same service rules?

  13. In my view clearly illegal , but wait , hevis not the only one…
    So go back and practise borderline legal serves with the intention to “hide“contact point ,without actually doing so .
    In my view this is a function of :bat movement after point of contact , bat speed itself .Very quick,short explosive motion is harder to read.

  14. The problem is from the umpires view there seems to be a clear view, but from the players view looks like it's behind the servers head!

  15. Haha…what a boring ping pong games nowdays with all the same shit serve, the games need some THC tonic to make the games more interesting, here in the video clearly Timo can answer most of the serve only 2nd or 3rd ball he got problem so why is Timo crying about whilst for Xu all the serve he fails and that's clearly his problem…then they call themselves pros…wtf

  16. These services should have been called as illegal by the refree.. it is their job to do so for which they get paid for.

    Very disappointed to see such poor level of the refree at international level.

    Also, whats the point of ITTF rules if no one bothers to follow😡

  17. Then just watch these two videos. They show Xu Xin's super serve. But if you look exactly, you'll see, that while executing his tomahawk serve he hides the ball for a moment with his head, exactly short before contacting it with the racket.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfKKC5rOlp4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FPCUrVhTcI
    Or analyse his last winnig serves (7-9 and 8-9) against the Korean pair in the last set. Were they that legal??

  18. I think the rule is stupid that’s why so many players took advantage. I can argue and claim the serve is legal because if the other player stand by the opposite corner of the other side he could see the ball. Impossible for Timo because he is lefty.
    Lots of players serve has a blind spot if receiver stands by one corner but can be seen on the other corner
    If a rule can’t be promptly and accurately enforced it’s a stupid rule, as it becomes a competition of how much you can take advantage of it.

  19. No need to argue. It is completely legal. At least from the umpire point of view, they always see the “contact point”

  20. Illegal for a Lefty player as Timo or XX. It's impossible to see the contact point for a lefty.

    Quite similar as Swedish P. Gerrel.

  21. The video is not the actual match game how can we conclude if it is illegal or not? The serve is just too fast for our eyes to percieve…Human eyes has a limit. We really cannot see the contact point if it is done with great speed.

  22. Legal,first the serve is vertical from an open palm,as the ball goes down the contact is visible too,only that it's too fast to read.that is why it's effective

  23. It might be legal for right-hand players because they view diagonally from the left side of the table. AND this serve is very deceptive even if he didn't hide the contact point.

  24. 1-Ball is hidden while coming downwards by his head and body.2-Ball has not been tossed as straight as needed to be legal like 2:23,2:28,2:41 and 2:36.3-At 2:59 the ball is almost in his hand and less than 16 cm4-And I can not figure it out! How and why the Umpires are silent about it!!

  25. Table tennis rules and their enforcement are a joke! Umpires make politically correct decisions. Therefore Liang Jingkun's perfectly legal serve is called illegal in japan and that's OK, but no umpire would penalize yoshimura's obviously illegal serve in japan. However in the Men's World Cup at the end of the month in China, umpires would suddenly see things differently and reverse their decisions on yoshimura's serve and call it illegal. It depends on where the tournament is held.

  26. I can't see the ball because it's hidden from his head… And it's difficult to see the ball…so I think it's illegal, but very hard serve for other table tennis players.

  27. Everybody says it's an illegal serve but a lot of other pros you admire so much have the same problem with hiding the point of contact. Why don't you say anything about them? Because their serves aren't nearly as effective as Yoshimura's. You aren't pros to judge him, when even other pros have accepted his serve as the hardest to deal with, and none of them have said that it's illegal

  28. The fact that Timo a man who is one of the best in reading the game did so much mistakes against this serve shows that they are illegal

  29. Well,, after re-watch yoshimura and timo match, i think the main reason why timo lost is not just yoshimura serve..

    It obivious that timo is on bad shape on that match,,

  30. People need to stop crying because he has a very effective serve. People used to hide the ball all the time, by and large serves now are much easier to see and read, stop looking to take creativity away from the game before everyone just starts serving like a 1200 player

  31. Illegal due to hiding the ball with his head before contact. Many players do this by using the arm/hand in the past so the rules changed. Nowadays people using other body parts (head, shoulder, etc) instead. Top players are cashing in before real enforcement implementation. Hope for a cleaner sport.

  32. I think it's legal, at the level of Timo, he should be able to read what spin is on the ball by looking at the flight of the ball in the air. if the argument is that you can not see the contact point (hidden by the head) True, if you see it head on, like the camera position in the example, but looking from a slightly left angle, you can see the contact point. Timo should be able to see it too. It is effective because Yoshimura channges the time contact point and the extremely fast scoping motion of the bet, which makes it extremely deceptive thus effective serve. Are you then gonna make a new rule and make all forms of decptive motion in serve illegal? Ridiculous! Then Adam Babrows snake hits under the table should become illegal too? (since it's deceptive and you cannot see the contact point(under the table)) In conclusion, imo, it;s not illegal, Timo just need to review the game, study it and learn to counter the smash better.

  33. My observation from Timo's match was that sometimes the contact point was visible and sometimes not but something other than that was more consistent, his tossed ball always fell behind his head. It means the toss was always obstructed by his head. Isn't that illegal? When umpires warn or give fault service for not removing the tossing hand before contact or under arm serving then head should be illegal as well. I may be wrong but just my thought.

  34. I don’t think he intentionally tries to hide the point of contact with the ball. To keep the bounce low, he has to bring his upper body down and the momentum brings his head down and forward. As a result, there is only a extremely short time during which the contact point is visible , and only from the diagonal direction. The same server did not create an advantage for him against Xue Xin at all.

  35. I think based on the footage that the severe is legal sometimes and illegal others. He hits it just a bit under his head so you can see it, making it legal, but with the little breathing room, it seems that sometimes it is illegal.

  36. Even if he would not hide the contact point the serve would be illegal, because you have to throw the ball straight in the air. Not in your direction…

  37. Yeah I too can't see the contact point thats very serious matter I am surprised the umpires have done nothing and they keep on complaining about chinese players for their service like liang jinkun

  38. Illegal. No possible to see the contact with the ball during the serve. His body hides it.
    Va en contra del reglamento. Me sorprende cómo los árbitros dejan pasar esto. Inaudito y abusivo.

  39. dude stop bullshiting ignorant internet TT players. there is no way u can tell if some of yoshimura's serves are no spin. in some occasions timo pushes hard against a "no spin" (your indication) serve and the ball does not pop up.

  40. Today I saw Lin yun ju serves, like Yoshimaru, he threw the ball inward when the ball down, it was behind his head until the struck point was below his head and seen able.

    Please compare other player’s service, you can see the same and differences.

  41. Hi. Thanks for your excellent video. I'd like to ask you which video explains better how to learn this serve. Thanks

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